EP082 | The Science of Simplicity in Healing- Pete Williams

Healing from chronic illness isn't just about the latest test or supplement—it's about the consistent daily actions that build your wellness over time. In today’s episode, Pete Williams, one of the UK’s leading functional medicine practitioners, shares how coaching is a game-changer in truly addressing the root causes of chronic conditions, like eczema and autoimmune disease.

Pete Williams has spent over 20 years guiding patients on their healing journeys through functional medicine. With a unique blend of exercise science and personalized medicine, Pete has helped countless individuals regain control of their health, including Anindita’s daughter. 

In this episode, Pete talks about the essential role of coaching in long-term healing—highlighting why doing the basics well, day after day, is what ultimately transforms health.

In this conversation, we talk about:

• The missing piece in chronic illness care: It’s not just the tests or supplements—it’s the daily commitment to wellness that makes the difference.
• Personalized medicine meets lifestyle change: How Pete blends conventional and functional medicine to tackle complex conditions like eczema and autoimmune diseases.
• The importance of coaching: How regular check-ins and accountability make all the difference in sticking with the healing process.
• Embracing change, one step at a time: Healing is a marathon, not a sprint. Small, consistent changes create lasting results.
• Building the right support system: Why you need a "village" to heal effectively—your health isn’t something you do alone.
• Real-world healing: Pete shares how he works with his patients, focusing on manageable goals and setting realistic expectations for success.
• Mindset shifts for success: How developing the right mindset and being prepared for long-term commitment are crucial to overcoming chronic illness.

Your body has the wisdom to heal—it just needs the right environment to thrive. Reconnecting with your body through simple, sustainable practices is the key to living a vibrant life. Pete’s message is clear: it’s the consistency, support, and self-compassion that make all the difference.

Website : https://www.functional-medicine.associates/

Email : pete@fm.associates

Resources & Next Steps:

• Download The Body's Whisper Starter Kit
• Book a 20-min Clarity Call
• Explore a

Transcript

Welcome Pete! I am so, so excited and happy that you are here and I just want to share a brief introduction, um, apart from the personal introduction, but here goes. Pete Williams is one of UK's leading functional medicine practitioners and the founder of Functional Medicine Associates. With over 20 years of clinical experience, it blends medicine and exercise science to help people heal holistically. He's a true pioneer in personalized medicine. He's been actually instrumental in advancing functional medicine in the UK, one of the first cohorts, I believe, from IFM. As a certified practitioner from the Institute of Functional Medicine. There are lots of things to say about him, and of course, he continues to inspire both practitioners and patients through his innovative approach to healing. That's really something that, you know resonates with me a lot. Uh, he's also a personal advocate for active living, living and balanced, and he has to keep up with his two young sons as well. So I think that's part of it is what he shared. And of course, his work on personalized genome testing and, you know, bringing about DNA Smile. 

I just wanted to put it out there. Maybe you want to talk about that, but on a personal level, this is, of course, the professional introduction that I wanted to start with. Pete, you've been instrumental in helping, uh, you know, our family, specifically our daughter, who was, uh, you know, dealing with a lot many years ago. Uh, it's, uh, it's amazing how time flies. She had very severe eczema and and lots of medication. So when he came to you in 2015, exactly ten years ago, we were really struggling. And, uh, I just found you on, you know, like, by just doing a random search in UK. And I'm so glad that I came across your name and we got started, and you really helped us, you know, on that path and.  Pete. So thank you for joining us today. 

Pleasure. Thank you for allowing me to look after your daughter for all these years as well. So it's been it's been quite a journey, hasn't it?

 Welcome to Embrace Your Healing Journey, a podcast for women with autoimmune and other chronic conditions to help them navigate their illness without fear of isolation and uncertainty and find relief from their symptoms. Your body is your guide and ally in healing. If you are ready to embrace this journey with compassion and awareness, then this show is for you. Tune in weekly as I, a Functional medicine Certified Health Coach, deliver tips and insights that demystify the healing process, guiding you towards the relief you deserve so that you can feel healthy and happy once more. Quite a journey. Quite a journey. So I you know, I just thought that, uh, you want to start off with what drew you to functional medicine? I always wanted to ask you that. Actually, it's a very good question. Um, well, as you know, from a from an an academic background, uh, I've sort of got two sides of my career. Number one, I started off as a I still an exercise scientist. Um, I think that has become much more important as we, we look after chronic disease because the literature is so strong. And there's some very simple messages from that is that, you know, I have a I obviously have two degrees in, in exercise science and exercise medicine. And, and if you just simply get people fitter and stronger, you are going to very significantly reduce the risk of chronic disease. So, so and and that's really come to the forefront over the last 20 years as we understand that working muscles produce lots of molecules that are just really good for you systemically. Uh, and I think if we're looking at, um, all cause mortality reduction, there's nothing that touches still in the literature being fit and healthy with regards to reducing your risk. So that's great that that's come back in because obviously that's my expertise. Uh, I started off. Um, once I did my degrees, I started off, actually with a very small place in the centre of London, and I was really working people out because, um, you know, training people because obviously that was my background. I had a, you know, good understanding of, of medicine that went with that. But everything changed when I got introduced to, uh, a friend who said, you should go and listen to this chap. He's coming over here, and he comes over to London once a year. And that was Doctor Geoffrey Bland. And within 35 minutes, I think that was the big career change for me. Uh, because here is a man just so eloquently talking about a subject that I knew very well, which was cardiovascular disease, but didn't know it, like the way this man was describing it. And I think this was 1996, um, and everything changed from there. I became a member of the Institute for Functional Medicine when it was in its very early days, very small and, and started going over to do the to do all of the courses. I'd probably go to the US pretty much from 2000 onwards, um, once or twice a year to. To do all of the courses and and as you say, I was in the first group worldwide to, uh, certify with the IFM certification. So so it's been a long journey. Um, and a detour and, um, you know, um, nearly 30 years in, in practice now. So you just gain more and more experience and, um, you just got a better understanding of, of how you want to go forward with things. I think for me now, I obviously, um, prefer to stay in the sort of cardiovascular cardio metabolic space, and that's where most of my work is. But but yeah, um, you know, that's that's been my career and it's been it's been good fun so far. Yeah, it's it's, uh, it's amazing to you. I didn't know about the jet that, uh, Doctor Jackie Bland part time. Yeah, that's how it changed for me. It was. It was literally. Wow. I, you know, I'd I'd had a good conventional medicine up, um, you know, education. And here's a man talking about things that I thought I knew about, but he was so eloquently. Changing the way we we think about certain things. It was like, wow, I've, I've got a I've just got a this sounds so right to me. I need to go and follow it. And so that's where it's, it's led me to this point. Yeah. And um, I, uh, I read a lot and including the disease delusion. Yeah. Right. That eye opening book. I mean, I am not meeting in person, but just reading that book opens your eyes. Yeah. So. So that's the. That's something. But what has kept you passionate about after 20 plus years in the practice? Because you said 30 years when you started, but more than 20 years now, what do you think. Yeah, I you see that keeps you going I think I think you can never know enough. And so there's always something that's coming out that redefines what you thought you knew. Um, so that's always a challenge about probably what you were doing five years ago isn't what you're doing now. Um, because more data has come out. Um, what else keeps me challenged? I think, um, I think difficult. Patience. Um, keep you challenged. I think there comes a point where after doing things for such a long time, you have a rhythm and a way that you do things, and you're probably reasonably good at it. Um, and then occasionally you just get a very difficult patient and suddenly you feel as though you're back your backs against the wall again, and you've got to try and work it out and, um, and and. Yeah. So that's still I still think you've got to have that challenge where you realise that actually you're not as good as what you think you are. Um, and that keeps you challenged to be able to try and do the best job that you can. So, uh, but also, I think the other thing is, is that you appreciate that you do have a, uh, a skill set that can really help people out. And, and that's, that's very motivating for you as well, when you, when you start seeing the results of changing someone's health over time, I think it's, it's it's quite it's very empowering. I think it's one of the biggest rewards, honestly. I mean, when you see somebody's life change. Um, so it's Diwali now in India where, where I live, uh, and, you know, so you saying like how you do Christmas, you then give some of your clients. So I have had one client who stopped working with me a year ago. She sent me. She sends me gift every Diwali. And her message is you. You lit up her life. You know when you hear that. Not because of the gift, but, you know, the the, uh, change that you bring about in other people's lives, that. I think that's amazing, right? Because I think a lot of times they love it, isn't it? I think what's very interesting about probably the work that I have to do, it's that it's very different from a traditional, um, conventional medicine model, not because you're not using conventional medicine, but when you have complex cases. I mean, like, I, I mean, Aiyana had been to Great Ormond Street, so it wasn't that she hadn't gone to some of the best professionals in the world. Yes, she had it, just maybe that the strategy of how you were trying to look at her, um, had to be different. And so when we eventually started working with air and air. We had to build a strategy that was not just about certain aspects of her health, but it was about how do we encompass everything about her health, and then how do we how do we build this out over time? And also, what is she going to have to do? Or what is her support team, which was fundamentally driven by by you going to have to do on a daily basis and then on a monthly basis. And that's where I think, um, it becomes harder to do. And I think that's where it becomes and it's not as, as we discussed before, we were on the we before we started recording, I think the biggest certainly for me, when a patient comes in, I already have an idea of what needs to be done, and I already have an idea of how we can resolve this or we've got a good chance of resolving it. The problem with the resolving it is that you're going to ask a lot of your patients. They're going to have to do a lot. And importantly again, if we use iron as an example, I was asking a lot of you. To be able to change a lot of her things because, as we said on that, is that if you have a chronic patient that has been chronically ill for a long time, you are going to need to make a lot of changes and sacrifices. Yes. And, and and so I think this is where the coaching aspect is, I think is super important because it's not just I can give you two examples on this. Yes, we used quite a lot of conventional medicine, but also newer style of medical testing for Aiyana. We looked at her in a different way, and that's not that we didn't ebb and flow with the conventional medicine side. We did. We had to integrate both, but then we've got to coach her and she said with her, but you and the family and the wider scenario, to be able to say, here's what we've got to try and achieve over time, and that will literally mean changing things on a daily basis. Uh, and that's the most important thing. And, and I think what works with. With iron. His case, and in particular you, is that you'd had enough of Aiyana being really sick. And so you were desperate and you were desperate and ready for change, because you'd gone through every avenue before she came to, before we worked together. And you weren't really getting any better. In fact, in many ways that sometimes it got worse. And so I think how I think we're this side of medicine doesn't work is that the support system is not good enough. And the strategy, um, has not been explained to the patient or the family. Well, enough about how long this may take and what that's going to look like and what you may need to do and invest with regards to the tests that we may need to do. Because they weren't insignificant, they cost quite a bit of money. Now again, luckily when we did do the testing, we. We were consistently identifying things that were going to be helpful for us. And of course, that's the reason why you come to someone with some expertise is because, you know, we've got to be very clear that if we're going to spend money, we want to spend it as, as effectively as we can. And unluckily, it gave us gave us lots of leads. But there is a I think, where I think functional medicine falls apart is that when people come into it thinking that there's an easy solution to, to, to recovery and there's never an easy solution. And I think this is where there's been a rise, particularly in, as you know, with regards to the the aspect of people, if they came to me and I would maybe spend an hour or two with them explaining why and how and what we're trying to do, you are never, ever going to be able to incorporate everything that I said or understand everything that I said, which is why it's so crucial that certainly we've we've with our team. And I think in the bigger picture. This audio was created with podcast AI. We've we've we've our team. And I think in the bigger picture of chronic disease, you have to be able to have someone else who can lead you down the pathway over time and get you to just understand that the little, the little things that you need to do on a daily basis, which of course, is, you know, is the coaching aspect. And obviously, I think your experience with me and your daughter over time led you into this pathway because you saw the importance of, you know, when I, I mean, I, I, I think, yes, it, it sort of, uh, I know we did some great work with regards to changing your daughter, but it was fundamentally your work because, you know, I was good with the here's what we need to do. Here's why I think we need to do this. We need to do that. But then you got to go and do it. And so we're functional medicine, I think. Falls apart is whether you have all of that structure in place. So I can literally. Um, and again, it's, it's it's different for me now because as I said to you, I'm on the sort of I'm on the other side of my career where, you know, I'm very well established. I've been doing it for a long time, and I can be a bit choosy with patients. And I think having seen so many patients over the years, you inherently know and what you, you know, when you're in your first conversation with a patient, you are instinctively feeling that were the sticking points are going to be. And most of those sticking points is patients may not have the time, and I want you to fix it and then get on with their lives. And you instinctively know when you with that patient in that first consultation that that isn't going to work so well. So one of the. One of the things that's happened in practice for me is that, and I'm very clear now, at the beginning, from a point of view of what needs to be done, because that is going to save the patient a lot of heartache, and it's also going to save you a lot of heartache. From a clinician's point of view, from a point of view of, you know, we had a very honest and robust talk at the beginning about what's going to be required and to be referred to. And again, again, this is probably age related. Um, if I'm going to spend all that goes as a clinician, yes, you get you know, you don't get me wrong, you get paid well, but you have a very big responsibility. And when you take on a patient like Aiyana, um, it's not it's not a, a a relationship where I just see your daughter for the amount of time for a consultation, and we never do any more work. It's once we're on the file, it never stops because there's always things to think about. There's always things like it's not, come back, do this, come back in three months. As you know, it was a question of is that we were almost in consistent communication about what's happening, how are we doing and how are we doing. So again, that is one of the other things that I think, um, expertise and just the experiences taught us is that if you think that there are simple changes that we're going to need to do and you're expecting me to do them, then we're probably not going to get the results that you want. And I think that's super important. And again, you know, what you learn as a experience teaches you a lot. And I think 20 years ago, that's probably something that I didn't do. And and maybe that is because, you know, you probably weren't as busy as you are now. But I think now you've got to be very clear to your patience because as I said to you and number one, um, if you are doing this and you're privately funded, you're going to end up spending a lot of money. Um, and so it's important that your patient knows exactly where they are, what is required for them before we make those steps, because we as, as you know, the the coaching aspect is, is, you know, and again, I probably wouldn't have said I, I think you sat at the top of our importance and I think this is the key thing from a point of view of sure, you know, you came to me for that expertise about, you know, how do we get your daughter out? But that, I don't think, was as important as I know you got to do the daily stuff. And so, as you know, that's what's nice about all of that. Day to day work that you had to do with Alana, which was guided, as you say, with, with. Here's what the tests are telling. Here's what we needed to do. Here's how we need to do it. But then you've got to go and do it. And it's really hard. It's just well, it's it's not an easy journey. And I think again, this comes back to it's really important that expectations are met with people because I think we're conventional medicine still falls down through no fault of its own. And I can use the I can use the UK as a really good example of this is the system of medicine is the problem. It's not the doctors that are the problem. They are in a system where that system doesn't work for a patient. From a point of view of chronic disease, you know, if you've got a if you've had a virus or an infection, we can deal with that straightaway and off you go. But when you're talking about a chronic disease, like, um, you know, like, um, like eczema dermatitis, like a cardiovascular disease, these are incredibly complex diseases that need day to day solutions. And they can't be resolved, diagnosed one. Even those, you know, which are undiagnosed. There are a lot of people who fall through the cracks. I think they haven't got a diagnosis yet, but they are not well. Yeah. And I came to the track. Yeah. I think they fall through the cracks again. And I think they just need to be aware that, you know, the, the model of healthcare that they're going, going, going to go into and maybe restricted with regards to giving the results that they want. Well, I can say it's funny, I was looking over a new cardiovascular, um, um, presentation from, from one of the professors, um, in the US that I always follow. And one of his slides really said is that we can reduce the incidence of cardiovascular disease by 80%, and that was by doing five things. And four of those things are all lifestyle. And so again, this comes down to the power of doing the basics well. And I go back to right to the beginning is that sometimes the the answers are incredibly easy, but doing them and getting them there is we're all there. We're all there. The the difficulty comes. So, you know, for my people, when they come into me, I would say that almost 95% of the patients I see are just not fit enough. And so if we could get them fitter over time, the increase in health will be dramatic. But it's whether they choose that they are going to do that. I can't make them do that. And this is where I think coaching becomes incredibly important because you, you, you learn those strategies of positive psychology, but you also learn those strategies about how you gently nudge them in a way that makes them feel like they can move down the pathway. So again, I think this is where we come back to it. I think everyone ultimately would like a coach, and I think would probably respond incredibly well to having some kind of, um, responsibility to check back into, to be responsible to someone, but also because it's a complex picture. You've got to do lots of stuff, you know, just on a simple basis. You know, life can be complex and it can be busy, it can be stressful, and sometimes you forget what you need to do. So again, it's that it's that capacity to be responsible to someone else. Um, but being the team and within that team playing structure, everyone has a role to do. And for that team to work and get the results, everyone has to pull their own way. And there are going to be points where maybe a certain person in that team, for whatever reason, can't pull the weight for a period of time and someone has to take up their take up the slack. Again, this is where I think coaching becomes, you know, you have to be more responsible as a coach when you know that you've got patients who are maybe in more of a difficult situation, you've got to guide them a bit more. You've got to give them the confidence that you know, this is all right. It's a crappy time. Um, but what is the best thing that we can do whilst we're in this crappy time so that we stop you from falling underneath the water? Maybe we can just keep you treading water until we've got that capacity that we can get you out. So again, I think there's a this is where, as you know and and we know that your business has got better and better because people need it inherently. They need that little bit of help. And but they also need that aspect of being responsible too. And I think this is the good thing about it's a little bit like people are very, very happy to pay other people to keep them responsible. And I think that's reassuring. It's a it's a reassuring point that, yes, if you don't turn up for our session, then you know you're going to lose out financially, you know, because we are booked in and it's really important that you turn up. So there's lots and lots of these psychosocial aspects that come to people's health. And you know, and again, this comes back to the experience that you had with me and your daughter with regards to this is not going to be an easy job. I think I remember said I said right at the beginning, we've got to give this a minimum of 18 months before we can even sort of suggest that we're, you know, we're really going to see results now. We probably got results quite a bit quicker than that. But ultimately, as you said, your your daughter's situation was, you know, we had to clarify it, didn't we? Is that your daughter is genetically susceptible to this condition. And what that means is throughout her life, that condition will never go away. But it means that. A rather than it being, um, life limiting and life changing for her, which it was when we first saw her. It is now, as you know, where she is now. It's it's more that it's it's a little bit more and it's a hindrance and it's an occasional issue, but it's nothing like it was. And she can live a very normal life with, you know, without medication. Um, and we very, very rarely get the signs and symptoms of, of that disease poking its head out. And when we do, if we do get those signs, we know what to do to know, you know. And I always done a done an amazing job, hasn't she. Yes. She had and she's staying by herself and, uh, she's, you know, been away from home for the past one year. But as you were saying, it's a way of life for her. It it was not something that, you know, that, you know, anybody has to post on her, uh, which is when true change, lasting change actually remains with the patient or the client when they own that, like you were saying, you know, taking responsibility. They she owns her head. And when you own your own health, Then with a little bit of guidance, then you need with a little bit of support. And that's as you said, the coaching part comes in what you gave us both the direction which was lacking when I came to you, uh, in, you know, in a in terms of addressing the root causes, actually, uh, you know, which in conventional medicine, as you know, you talked about that's the limitation about the about the whole approach, the you know, it's a paradigm shift when it comes to functional medicine. And, uh, uh, I think that's how I found coaching, actually. I mean, uh, after I knew, uh, your right, you had mentioned it will take a probably about 18 months, but we started seeing some improvements. So there was some light at the end of the tunnel, but it was a very dark tunnel. When I had come to you, things were really, uh, you know, bad at that time, but, uh, but eventually. Yes, with time. But it's, you know, it's the it's the consistency. It's the daily shift. It's the getting up every morning and saying that. Okay, I need to keep going. Uh, so, you know, I am committed. I believe in this. So I had complete belief in you. I think that's, um, that's the other thing we need from our practitioners or the coaches. Uh, so, you know, so all of this comes together. This audio was created with podcast by. Uh, so, you know, so all of this comes together. And. Yeah, that's how I found coaching and that's how I. Because I, uh, the work that we did together that that really helped me, uh, you know, inspired me. And then I realized there must be other people who are going through this. So that's how health coaching came about. But then you were talking a bit about, uh, DNA testing. And I know you worked a lot on that, so I was a bit curious to know, what do you think is the future of personalized medicine now? I mean, there's been a lot of changes even when we've started working together. So what is I know you work on that front a bit. So. Yeah. So. So I've been very lucky to, uh, to I know again, as a clinician I don't think I'm a, I, I find science in scientific literature in the way we do studies. I actually I wouldn't say that's my, my strength. I think uh, although obviously I've got to have some degree of, of, of good understanding of that. Uh, I think where my, my strength lies is, is, um, I seem to have a, a way of seeing what needs to be done. And of course, that's all the amalgamation of all the training that I've had. But you sort of just get this sort of instinctive aspect of, here's what we need to do and here's how long it's going to take, and here's the pathway. Um, and as part of that, very early on, I was introduced, I mean, probably gone 15 to 20 years ago now to understanding how certain genes may have these variations to them that predisposes to, to issues. So, um, I was introduced to that very early on, and as I say, had some understanding about how we how we personalize, um, protocols to try and get people better. So if you remember right at the beginning, we did do a basic nice panel with, with, um, Ioana. And what was quite interesting from that panel, do you remember her? Her vitamin D genetics was incredibly poor. Um, and what was again, an understanding of personalized medicine from that was that those genes and those gene results were telling us that Alana may ever get optimal vitamin D levels. And as a consequence, when we were following her blood tests, we always saw that pattern. And so that was an indication of understanding how you can start really personalizing programs, particularly with genomics, because genomics gives you the. Here's what the business looks like. Here's the departments of the business. And we know from that that certain aspects of certain departments may always need more attention. And so that's how we were able to to map a particular risk factors for Iana, but also how we could integrate that into the day to day process. If you also remember again, that, um, one of our Alana's main issue was that, um, she had quite a lot of SNPs that meant that her capacity to toxicity, um, um, pollutants certainly wasn't as good as we would expect to see. And of course, when you put those genetics against living in a polluted city, you amplify some of the aspects of risk that go with that. And when we used to do some specific testing with Alana, we always saw the pattern of oxidative stress being being higher than we would like. And of course, once you have oxidative stress, you're going to have a, um, a an exaggerated immune response, and then we're going to have more inflammation. So over time, we were developing this storyline in this picture about why things may be problematic and how we would need to. More, more rigidly and more thoroughly support certain aspects of her physiology, which is which is what we went on to do. Uh, so going back to the genetics, I think over time you become very comfortable with understanding, particularly if you're going to work with people for an a long period of time, that the genomics in particular give you a really good robust picture of some of the baselines. That doesn't mean to say that you've got horrible genetics. That means that that's going to play out in real time, but it gives you an indication of increased risk. Um, and so, yeah, I've become very comfortable, not so much with the ins and outs and the biochemistry and the and, and the science with regards to single nucleotide polymorphisms and what they do and how they do. But more from a point of view of here's a patient, we've got this condition. I would love to know x, y and z because I can sort of see it. Um, and I would know what genetics would be important for us to think about. And is that playing a part in that picture? So, um, yeah. So and obviously being in the. Been in the game for such a long time that I've got lots of really good relationships with genetics companies, etc. where I can go back and say. Here's something I'm thinking about, you know, should we do something with this? And and obviously that's where, um, DNA smile came, came out of because I'm very interested in how barriers become compromised. Um, and when we mean barriers, we mean sort of the gut barrier and the oral barrier, the blood brain barrier, the skin. I'm very interested in what happens when those barriers are compromised. And this was very much part of Alana's picture as well. Um, part of Alana's condition was, was that her immune system was consistently ramped up. And when that gets ramped up, information gets ramped up as well. And what we were trying to do with Alana was we were trying to look at, well, why is this consistently responding? And that's when we looked at some of her barrier functions, particularly her gut. And we found that her gut barrier was compromised, which meant that when what that meant was one of the barriers that protects her from the outside world, um, was more permeable than we would like. And that meant that things that shouldn't cross into the body. We're crossing into the body. And then her immune system was just doing the role that it's designed to do. But when your immune system responds, it responds with a lot of inflammation, a lot of oxidative stress. And then we get this vicious cycle of keeping her condition going. And so I took a lot of interest in oral disease. And the reason why that is, is because periodontal disease or gum disease is almost like a gatekeeping disease for other diseases to accelerate from. So cardiovascular disease, type two diabetes or to immunity. These are all diseases that are accelerated if you've got poor oral health. So I was very much interested in that. And so I, I developed some ideas and we developed DNA Smil from, from Nordic Labs based off all of that. And that's been out for about the last 5 or 6 years. So again probably is still a little bit before its time. Um, because people are only just coming over to this increasing personalization of medicine. And, and I do think it's absolutely the way to go. But I think what's most important in all of this is that regardless of how far you can go with personalization. If you're not doing the fundamentals correct. You're not fit. Your diet's not good enough. You're stressed out. Your sleep is poor. Your relationships are poor. None of that personalization matters that much. And also that you can't consistently do those basics on a daily basis. So some of the conversations I'm having now with patients who will come to me because I'm quite well recognized, I think, again, this comes back to that conversation with them at the beginning, because sometimes some patients come in thinking that we're going to do all this amazing tests and we're going to give them this and give them that, and everything's going to be sorted. And sometimes they can be disappointed with we can do all of those, but you're not doing the basics well. So until those basics are done well I'm not that interested in doing these fancy tests because they are not going to be the ones that that help your condition as effectively as doing these basics. So it brings us back to that point of you're going to have more success, going to speak to our coach and maybe come back in 3 to 6 months time. When you're on that coaching situation and you're fundamentally doing all of those basics well, if I've learned anything in all of this time, doing the basics well will always give you more results than doing the fancy stuff at the end. And to be fair. A lot of testing is a representation of the context of how you're living your life. So sometimes those tests, it's not I'm saying those tests are a waste. But no, but they might be a sort of there's maybe a time and a place. Let me give an example that I say to many patients, and there's no problem us doing thousands and thousands of pounds worth of testing, but maybe we'll leave that for six months whilst you do all of this fundamental basics, because after six months you're going to be in a much better place. And some of these markers that we see in basic blood work may be moving towards normality. So maybe let's not spend a lot of money on the testing. Let's spend the money getting you coached over time, being compliant and consistent. And then let's see where we are from there. So again that's where it comes back to I think making sure that a patient really understands were. The big movements happen. The big movements don't happen. And I need to. By giving you a supplement and. And the only really way. And don't get me wrong. There is no doubt that supplementation works with data, but it's not going to move the needle like the big stuff. Now, don't get me wrong. Let me give you an example. And indeed, Ayana, we know that she is more likely to be deficient in vitamin D. We know that's a really important marker to helping modulate her immune system, and it's really important that we knew she was deficient when we came in, and we had to do so quite strongly to get a point where she wasn't deficient. So in that point, yes, that works, but that wouldn't have been anything. As I said to you, that, um, that still beats, uh, doing the basics well and getting those aspects well, because all the literature about health is in those five lifestyle modified or modifiable changes. So it's making sure that you understand the patient's understanding of how they see this working out. Because a lot of them, as I said to you, a lot of them, um. Must understand that, yes, we can do lots of testing, but that's not going to be what under understand sort of resolves the situation. It's just going to give us a picture of where they are in time, and they're still going to have to do the work. Which brings us back to the role of being consistently coached, which is just so important for being responsible. Being in a time and a structure where, you know, here's what we here's where we are, we are going to work with you for a period of time, and then we're going to find out how well we've done over that time. So within the coaching structure, in the work that I do, I'm setting our patients up in a defined time frame as well. What I'm trying to do with that is say, here's what we've found, here's what we're going to do, and here's the time frame that we're going to do that over. Now that needs to be in what I call a flexible framework, because sometimes life takes over and you've got to extend that and you've you've got to be, you know, you've got to go go the flow with that. But ultimately there's got to be a there's got to be a point where you have to check in. So because that check in is driving a patient in a model that says in 6 to 8 weeks time, we're going to do a new novel blood test. And so I really want to make sure I've done as much as I can to try and improve what that test result is going to tell me, because not only am I symptomatically going to feel better, we're going to see the numbers and the data changing favorably for us. So being in a structure I think is again is super important. This audio was created with podcast AI. So being in a structure I think is again is super important. And and not getting people well is not easy. So you're trying to make sure again, as you know, and again you inherently have more experience. Know that you inherently just feel where the where the struggles are going to be and you've got to adjust and move it forward. But ultimately, that's why structure works for me. That's why you've got to be put into a structure from a point of view of the time frame, and people have to be responsible within that time frame, within the team structure. And look, again, it's no one's fault if it doesn't work out as well as you would like, because that happens a lot. Um, but it's also being not so hard on yourself that from, you know, from what I'd say, most of our patients. Um, there's a, there's a I think you need that expertise and, and that external validation that. Although we might have not hit the targets that you wanted given the last three months that you've had. This is more than a great result. And the analogy I try to give people on that one is imagine that we're in business in a market where the markets are terrible, as in, it's just a really bad time for business. And within that time frame, you haven't got any better, but you haven't got any worse within that time frame. That's an example of you doing really well. So again, that this is where the coaching aspect comes in. And being able to translate how well a patient is doing based on the construct of really, if I can say how shitty their life is, the crappier their life is, the more external influences on there, the less likely they're going to optimize results. So it's making sure that you're still giving them the positive psychology of I know we haven't moved on, but wow, what a job you've done within that time. Now moving on within that also, there's going to be some times the time and again my explanation to people is for this to work, um, we need to have a, an agreement that we could be having a good cop bad cop conversation occasionally. And what that means is, I may have to tell you something that you may not like, because either you're not you're not sticking up. You're you're not you're not doing the role that I need you to do. Um, and that's important that we do that. That's not because, you know, I'm trying to make trouble is I'm trying to get you better. And we've all got responsibilities, and within this we've got to be comfortable that you know both ways that we've you know, we're responsible for each other. And it's okay for us to have, you know, a conversation that is is maybe slightly uncomfortable. So again, I think that is something that as long as patients know that that we're doing this because it's to make you better, we can't just keep on having conversations that are nice because it keeps the conversation nice, but it doesn't get you any better. There's got to be a point at some stage where we've got to say, this isn't going the way that we would like, and we need to discuss why that is because we can't move you on. And so it's important again that there's a robust conversation at all time. And and it's not finger pointing. You know, it's not a question. You haven't done this. So that's why we're not getting any work. Because for most patients there's always a reason. Why they've not done it. And again, there's a whole host of psychology that goes with that, as you know, and a lot of it is completely unconscious. Your patient doesn't know. You don't know. But there's something deep down in their psyche that has maybe stop them from from moving forward. So it's complex. But again, as I say, I think the, the skill on that is that as long as, as long as I've certainly from a coach perspective, and certainly for me, I would rather not take a patient on or see a patient for the first time. And we agreed to disagree, not to move forward, um, than taking a patient on not knowing what they're getting into. I think the great thing for you is that you got into everything. And that was probably I don't know whether that was a shock because it was a lot to take on board. And I think the, you know, the. I suppose I suppose the lock of for you, particularly the work that you do now, is that that was a pretty intense time. It was, it was quite it was a lot to do, a lot to do. Um, but at least you sort of had all of that experience to, to know. Wow. You know, this was, this was quite a lot of work because it, it was a lot of work and but it paid off over time, I think. And actually that's that's when you it's funny you say that. It's not funny. Actually. It's true that you say that because one is that you hit rock bottom. You can't really go down any further. So you know the point when you hit rock bottom. So that was the kind of where we were when I came to you, because seriously, there was no other way. Sure. I mean, the only way was what we'd already done and that wasn't working. Yeah. So it's like the rock bottom. So. So the only thing is that, you know, you can only probably go up, but the issue is that you don't know. I think many things you covered a lot in, uh, in this, uh, you know, in this conversation, but I think a few thing that stood out for me is the expectation, which you really lay down very well. It was not that, you know, like in three months you will be all fine and we'll do this one test and it'll give us all the answers. You know, the test and you said test supplements, they're all pieces of the puzzle, but they are not the complete picture. So you take the data points. And I think the other thing that you said is, of course, laying the foundations. You know, I tell my clients that if you're trying to learn a new language, you know, it's literally like learning a new language because you're changing so many aspects that you're going out of daily. You're doing this and maybe you've lived this way for 50 or 60 years. Yeah, there are a lot of changes. So it's learning like learning a new language. You don't start learning a new language by trying to write SL. You first learn the alphabet, then you write one letter, two letter words, then you move two sentences, then you, you know, so that's that's a that is the, the structure. So the structure is very important as you said. And we all have our own ways of doing that. The other interesting thing that I when we were talking, I realized that you didn't have a coach at that time. But I know that you have now, right. You have a coach in your practice so that. Yeah. Because then. Yeah. And again. And maybe that was because and I still think there's a component of there are certain patients where, um, they just want you at the prepared to pay for your time on that. Um, which is fine, I get that. I think, again, this comes back to you've got to make a decision on how you think is the best way that your patient is going to heal over time. And so part of them, because I think a lot of getting people to heal is whether or not they feel as though they've got the absolute right environment to do that. And that right environment may mean they always want to check in with you, and that's one of their key mechanisms that is going so. So I've got to not dismiss that and just pass them on, because I've got to be very aware of that association that oh, they're passing me on to their coach, you know, because humans are uh, we're, we're, we're, we're very we're very complex. So there's a component of that where I will still, depending on the patient, determine what's the best pathway for them. And that is again, is is just something that comes with time. But it's really important that that is because some people are as you know, some people are just they're just ready. You are ready to go. What do I need to do? I can do that. And it doesn't start from tomorrow. I mean, I have to learn. To be fair, it's quite an easy journey when people are ready. It's quite an easy journey. Uh, so knowing knowing that angle from a point of view of knowing at what stage of change that patient is at, really does determine how quickly and how easily you can move them forward, which, you know, in many ways was sort of your situation, but yours was more from a point of view of you'd been to see the best people in the world, and there was no other alternative, so you had no other choice. So so you do get patients where that's the case as well, noting that sometimes that sort of gives you the clarity. Well, as I said, you didn't have much choice to be fair. And so, you know, touchwood, you know. Ha. You know, we all probably there's always a degree of luck because I think when you're trying to look at a complex patient like Jaana was, there's always a worry and a risk from me that like, do I, do I know what I'm doing and also do I have I set this up correctly? It's always on the back of your mind. You know, you're sort of slightly I'm not suggesting that you're always panicking, but there's always a slight anxiety about, oh God, have I done the wrong thing? Right thing here? Have I done the right thing here? And so, you know, as I say, as a clinician, you you take that burden on from a point of view of, oh, God. You know, particularly when we see people who are, Again. I think there's always it. There's always a degree of luck with this. And but when you see patients who are coming in, who are at rock bottom and they've gone all through conventional and and you're your last chance saloon, in some ways that's where I think the burden on, on on the clinician becomes greater because the responsibility of you're the last, last line, you think, oh God, I hope I get this right. And so to be fair on that, a lot of them you win, but some you don't. Um, and you know, you can't solve everyone. Um, and sometimes that but but again this will be a little like like you if you're coaching, you know, there's only so far that you can go certain people. And a lot of that is because, you know, there could be a lot of complex reasons why that that is. But even when you take them on at the beginning is, you know, as you know, there are there is the sort of behavioral change model, you know, where is your patient at to be ready to make those changes that you want. So again, it's bringing that into the beginning. With regards to are you really ready for change? And if you're not and it's not that we can't take you on early when you're in that contemplation phase, but this is where the honest conversation you build in about, listen, you know you're not capable. You've told me you're not capable of doing X, so that means that we just need to just sort of. Be careful with regards to what we believe the outcomes are. Because if we could do all of that, then the outcomes are going to be so much greater and so much quicker. But you're not. So I've got to give you, in my experience, what I think is a really good result based on where you're currently at and you've got to be good, you've got to be good with that because you know you're not going to get what you perceive you'll get because your life is not in a position to be able to give you that. And so what with any relationship, whether that's with you of a coach or of me as a clinician, what patients have to understand is it doesn't matter how much you pay us, it does that. It's not a transactional relationship. The relationship is what you can do yourself. And what stage you're at to be able to change is really what you've got to be able to understand, because we don't want you going forward on false pretenses. Yeah. But the last thing that we know and what we what we don't want is clinicians, patients coming back complaining that they've not got the results that they wanted. So it has got to be that clarification at the beginning with regards to here's what I think is best case scenario, working with you with what we've got over the next year. This is what I think would be a really good outcome. Now, if that's not how you perceive it, then we shouldn't work together because I think that is best case scenario on what we've got. And, you know, I've got to use my experience of nearly 30 years and thousands of patients to know. And I know you may not see that, but that is what I believe is is a really good outcome based on where we're at. And again, if that's not what you're after, then I'm not the person for you to be able to take you on that journey. And that's really important because as you know, and indeed to again, your role as a. As a clinician and a coach is that there is a component of you. This audio was created with podcast by the coach, is that there is a component of you taking on your patients woes, and it's difficult not to take him on because that's part and parcel of I think has been a good clinician. The downside to that, of course, is that you can get quite stressed out of it and it can bring you close to burn out quite quickly, but that's part of your role as well, unfortunately. And as I said to you, you know, I do think to be a really good clinician, it's very difficult not to take on your patients burden because that's part of part of this sort of greater family that's going to get you better. But it's difficult, you know, when you want to make sure that you're not burdened, you don't want to become the patient, which is a lot of clinicians end up being because they're so burnt out by the patients. So it's a fine dance between the two. And I think, as I say, just I would certainly say in the last ten years for me, just simply feel experience and you know, that I'm no good if I'm burnt out. So I've got to be careful about the patients that I choose to be able to maximize the results that we want from that. Um, I think that, uh, very well said, because something you have definitely more experience than I have, but even in my last eight years, that's something that I've noticed. In fact, one of the first things and we are almost towards the end here, one of the first things I remember, and it still sticks with me till date, is that as a quote specifically, uh, don't big, you know, like build a bridge with your client, don't become the bridge. You know, it sort of puts it in place for those, as you said, you can become burned out and you can't really help anyone. Not your family, not yourself. And, uh, not certainly not your patient or your client. So, uh, you, you know, you've touched upon how family, uh, you know, the family support is so important, the, you know, the personalization and where we are today. We are we where we were when I, you know, when we work together and, of course, you know, trying to deal with protecting and everything. But if anything that you, you would like to share as we end this conversation that I haven't asked you and one message that you would like to leave or family, you are just starting the journey. Like where I was when I came to you. The only thing that I haven't asked you. Yeah. Well, I think I think the. I think, um, to get people better, you have to have a village. And what we mean by that is that you can't get the best on your own. So you have to have a village that pulls you, that is consistently looking after you. And that means to say, as I said, you know, a patient's health is in very much determined by who else is helping out. So, you know, it's rare that you're it's very rare. People need people to help them heal. And so you've got to have a team, a village. It's almost impossible to do it on your own. So I think that would be number one. And again, you know that that that is one key. So, you know, I just think of again, when I'm in with a patient and, you know, I think more and more what I've learned is that the people who are lonely, alone, maybe don't have friends or family are much more difficult to heal because they don't have that support system. Uh, and more and more, as I as I say, I've seen just more and more patients. This some of the little red flags that I see when I've got a patient, it's like they. How are we gonna. You know, that's one thing that maybe determines how well we do with them. So that would be the first thing is that the better the support system, the better the the family unit, the better the village, the community, the item. Yeah, the community, the more likely you're going to heal. Uh, I think the second thing, the most important thing, again, that I would say, and this goes back to what I said, is that is the advances in precision and personalized LED medicine is incredible. However, there is a risk with that that people want the, the, the Golden supplement or the Golden test without making sure that they do the fundamentals. And if I've learned anything, it is me saying to patients the biggest changes you will ever make that is dictated by the science time and time again is these lifestyle changes. And that is where all the gold dust occurs. So if you're not prepared to do those, you're never going to get as good as results. So I can do as much testing as you like, but the testing isn't going to give us the outcomes that doing the fundamentals are. And then that comes down to how are we going to do those fundamentals, which comes back to, I think, again, the complexity of human existence and human lives. Um, and how difficult it is. And it's like what you were saying is that when you make changes to someone's diet, you're not making one change or two changes. You're making thousands of changes that impact on a person's life. You know, so you're not those 1 or 2 changes that you have made. So like, you know, for example, we need to go dairy free or we need to go gluten free. They're not two changes. They may be two changes when we say it, but the mechanisms that go around doing those changes could be hundreds of changes that a patient is going to make over time. And so it's given them those those aspects of. You know, you've got to give yourself enough time to be able to get to that point. And if you give yourself enough time, then that means it's not going to be so much of a burden for you. Then trying to resolve a complex issue in a very short period of time. And this is not just for now. You have to continue with this for lifelong, which is the other component when we come back to understanding humans. Humans are designed for probably not a lot of food and high physical activity. Probably not as much stress as we as we would would being in the social unit and living a life that is appropriate to living on a planet and with us in normal circadian rhythms and, you know, being interacting with nature. And that is not something that you need to do for a period of time, that is life that. So that has to continue. And this thing really that's missing. And there's no doubt that we have built a society there is not reflective of giving you good health. And you have to build on those. So again, I say to people with, with mine is that, you know, you're just not fit enough as an example. And if we get you a lot fitter, you're going to feel so much better across the board. So let's concentrate on that. Let's really concentrate on that. And we can forget about the other stuff because the other stuff, eventually all of this work that you've done here translate into the differences that we'll see in those test results. And so let's not waste our money on thousands and thousands of pounds when we're seeing that these just aren't good enough. So so yeah, they would be they would be my messages. But this is where it comes back to people in general. And I think it's a good thing to do is that if you want to do this, then I think coaching is an incredibly valuable tool because you need to be responsible to people. And, you know, in general, most people will pay people to be responsible, and that's not a bad thing. I think that's a great thing to do. We all need help. We all need, uh, it's, you know, you're on track. It helps to be on track because life takes over and it makes it complicated to stay on track. And that goes for absolutely everyone. So being responsible and being able to check in I think is super important. And I think this is why you'll see such a proliferation of coaching. And that's as I said to you. I mean, Shelly, either one of our nutritionists, she's gone through the iPhone coaching, um, because we believe that there's a lot of aspects of what we're doing is where we just need that little push, that little nudge, that little. Hey, how are you doing? How's this week being. Just that little reminder that you're on a program. We're moving you down a pathway. If there's any problems, let us know. And and it's keeping that that structure, but also keeping the consistency and also keeping the momentum. So for me again the momentum is really important that we don't get stagnant. So this is where these little check ins really matter because it allows us if we have a problem we can address it quite quickly and then we move on. So I think based on. You know, I'm. I'm assuming you're probably really busy, aren't you? Because suddenly people have recognized the the night. Yeah. The value of coaching. Actually, you know. Yeah. People had no idea in, at least in India, what health coaching was about. And I'm so glad that you, you know, we are. And you know, you mentioned this here. Uh, because I think that's that gap in even in functional medicine and not even convention. Totally agree. That's the gap, you know, and that's the that's often a huge gap to grow or giant or patient. Right. And I think what happens there again is and I think this is again, a lot of probably functional medicine clinicians fault is that you can bamboozle your patients with lots of data, but they don't know what to do with it. So the most important thing is on modern day, what do I need to do? And if you don't know what I mean like, do you think like do this, this and this, you know, go to bed. You know, it can be as simple as that daytime. And one of my clients told me, uh, she goes to just to give her example. And before we end, she goes to six specialists because she has a couple of autoimmune conditions, etcetera and some other. But she has a therapist and she has a coach, okay. She's that example. She's already seen six specialists. And the reason she comes to me is because she said, you're the only one who sees me as a person, and I know you're in my corner. Right. So it's not that I can because she's on so many medications. It's not that I can not, you know, completely change everything in her life. I can't because, you know, there's a lot of things going on. But but there is obviously something I can do, you know, I can keep her on track motivated. So thank you so much for the message. Uh, especially on the coaching. That sort of warms my heart. Anything else that sorry. I'm going to leave you with a quote from Albert Einstein. Yes. Please do. Well, Albert, one of his best quotes was simplicity is the highest form of expertise. And so when you get a simple message, just remember the expertise that has gone in to delivering a simple message. So I think that's a really good message for your patience, is that the simpler we make it, we've made it for a reason. And probably because simplicity works better than complexity. So again, that's why you're only going to do one thing for me this week. And that's the reason why you do it well, do it well. Exactly. And then we don't get bamboozled by too many messages. And I love that. I love that thing. Um, in fact, the tagline, my tagline has now become simplify wellness, Amplify lives. That's what it is. Define wellness. Uh, so, Pete, if somebody were to look, I mean, I share all the resources and the links in the show notes, but anything, any place in particular that you would like somebody to find you, they want to know more about you. Uh, I think you just, uh, share what you've got. I think we are on Instagram. And let's say. I think that's funny. I love it more than adequate. Um, thank you so much for allowing me to. Because as I say, we've, uh, it was over ten years ago, and I wasn't it when we we started. You know, it's really funny how time is. Well, it's changed your pathway. I think that's what's the. The nice thing about it is that, you know, I can sort of leave this conversation feeling quite good about, you know, the way we got together and where it's ended up. Because I think this is a really good example of if you get it right, it is quite life changing. You know, certainly for that for your daughter. But I think it it changed your pathway as well, which I think, um, you know, makes me feel sort of quite nice and fuzzy that I may have played a little part in that. So that's, uh, it's really nice that you've asked me to come on your podcast and of course, doing so well in, you know, in your country as well, you know, trying to spread the word, which I think is so, so important because there's such a big need for it. Thank you so much. Once again, thank you for joining us on the podcast. And yeah, I'll I'll end here for now.